13/14/15 Year Olds Debuting In Kpop IS A Problem And I Wish Kpop Stans Would Stop Pretending It’s Not

I wish kpop fans would be just as concerned about kpop artists hygeine who still have 10 layers of makeup on when they go to sleep so they can rush to their next schedule first thing in the morning. You know I never thought about it before but people only tease nice people who never do or say anything. I just leave people alone when I don't care about them, but somehow there's this weird obsession to publically humiliate your fave's percieved competition. Sadly hindsight is 20/20 because if some of these hateful people would read books and articles and the actual interviews of kpop idols you'd know quiet a few of them are not the most hygenic either. Yet I never see longposts about all the times kpop idols were on v or ig live after a concert and just put new clothes on with makeup on their faces and go to bed. I don't do that cause I know you never know someones mental state maybe they are really struggling with something personal. I know people just delete and get new socials and pretend they never said such rude and tasteless things but words do hurt. I never understand people wont tell the honest truth about politics' morals or something of common sense to a celeb but they will make fun of them.

Valid critique is fine. Show concern but just being mean for the sake of it is so pointless.

I try to say things that make sense and that I would actually say to a persons face; ask simple questions or make a critique of their work. But bullying someone like we are in middle school or something is so childish.

the way you guys still thirst over harry styles in 2019 and he doesn’t even shower…

Why S.M. didn't sabotage EXO... at least not how you think

S.m. did not sabotage Exo. They don't sabotage any of their groups. At least not how people think they do. Sure, from the fans and artists perspectives, I definitely think they may feel like that is the case, but we don't read their contracts. Heck, they probably didn't even read their contracts. Somebody can only screw you over if you let them.

It is possible to bargain and refuse to sign a contract if you don't want to. Multiple artists have left S.M. Entertainment and decided not to renew their contracts, but Exo, 8 members of Exo, did. They decided to stay in a contract locked tight with S.M. to stay in the group Exo.

Many say they had to; they had no choice, but they did. They could have all left together. There is no excuse for why they didn't. Because of the redraft of Korean entertainment laws to combat the exact thing that CBX sued for, the Korean government gave groups like Exo an out.

Which is why I knew they could not win their lawsuit, because it is very clear. It does protect the artists but it also protects the company. If you choose to resign odds are you will not win a lawsuit. The new law is a safety vest. If you throw it away you cannot cry foul.

There are many very helpful videos about this law that exist online. Groups can leave together with all their music and their name, but only if they leave together. Most likely what happened was some wanted to leave and some wanted to stay. It is quite clear who was on those two different sides.

The law is very specific that the thing is with this situation ALL the members must leave together if they want their name and music.

That right there would be, or should be, enough to stop this false claiming of S.M. mistreating Exo. Which, honestly, is kind of comical in 2024, the difference of the meaning of that word. Actual groups are abused by their agencies, and people think a company not making a group as famous as they could be is mistreatment.

It's not. And hey, if it was, and I'll give it to you, maybe that is a crappy thing to do, to block offers and say, Nah, we're not going to make you more famous but...

They could have left; they all had the free will to leave.

Though that would mean no more S.M. promotions, no more S.M. paying for everything, and no more benefits. Do I really have to go to the s.m. website and show you all the benefits they give to their employees? I mean, it's pretty nice. Sadly, we live in a world of comparison. People are desperate to find some comparison between the haves and the have-nots. Maybe if these millionaires aren't getting the highest pay in the company, then they deserve people to rally for them.

It's like a huge victim off--who is the least privileged rich person.

it's giving

But it's not even as simple as that. S.m invests a lot of money into each artist. They made them famous, they built them up, they got them sponsorships and acting jobs, and like it or not, they got them a fandom too. From S.M.'s perspective, they made the group. I mean, fans are shallow, and they want content and fan service, which is valid. I mean, if you like a show, sure you want more seasons, but these are real people. It takes millions to get these guys a reality show, wearing fancy clothes, with makeup artists and a camera crew with a rented-out villa. On top of feeding everyone, staff, managers, producers and stylists.

Meanwhile, some groups have personal YouTube channels just hanging out. Like the comparison is not valid. Like yes, they are so oppressed they have to spend tons of money giving their fans a fancy reality show to watch and heavily scripted and edited YouTube sketches.

S.m truly hates their guts so much they let them rag on them in public and on bubble and still buy them birthday cakes lmao.

I mean, think about that: Who needs all that to hang out with their friends? People bend over backwards to make it seem like S.M. is sabotaging them with no content... like it's not hard to hang out and film it. It's not S.M.'s fault they need a script or be at a concert in order to have chemistry. Kai said himself it took him a long time to get a youtube channel because he had to organize and pay for everything. It's expensive to do what they want to do. Look perfect, have great editing and keep their image fancy.

There are tons of issues in Kpop and s.m ent but complaining about the most pointless things takes validity away from the argument.

"But ...they cancelled youtube red reality show/ they said no to cochella" allegedly..

Do ya'll understand that those are avenue's that can't be controlled. Look at what happened to those poor girls who went to that event and got trashed for weeks. Anything can happen and it's not an asian event. Exo has had bad performances in the past, mess ups, bad notes, if that happened in a crowd full of foreigners who may not even be into kpop; they aren't women who can just laugh it off cause they look like instagram models, that would be humiliating. People are way meaner to men on the internet.

Do I need to bring back the last time S.m and fans tried to push exo performing at a western event, a very traditional group of people opposed it heavily citing it was an american event and began picking the group apart. Gender and race are a huge issue companies are hesistant how they bring a group to the west. They purposely promoted super m differently to prevent a bad reaction from certain groups of people. They wore less makeup, did less overt fanservice and made sure they promoted them more masculine. They always referred to one another as brother. They don't want to put their groups in a bad spot and I don't blame them.

Did people ever think that the group may not of been the best group to perform at that type of event. They have a lot of members and cochella isn't known for focusing on dancing. Some members don't even have lines in most songs, they would just be standing there. They aren't blackpink or 2ne1 with only four members who equally share lines.

I don't remember other large groups crying cause they weren't invited to cochella, because every market is different. Rappers, bands and female performers do better at cochella than dudes and there's nothing wrong with that.

How can 9 people sing equally at a musical event?

"Youtube offered them a show why didn't s.m take it"

With Youtube red...can exo be as authentic as the documentary may require? Can they have a scene with serious or contraversial stuff like hybe is doing and their fans be okay with that? Maybe that wasn't a risk they were willing to take. They have a completely different promotion style than other companies. The fans do not know these people. What if the members had to show their real authentic personalities? Would fans even be interested in that? It could destroy the fourth wall s.m built up for them. Fans would rather ignore issues just like the lawsuit, they plug their ears and cover their eyes, even when it was cbx who tried to call attention to it. They were trying to say they had an issue but fans just wanted more fluffy content and were upset the lawsuit messed it up for them. So could the fandom take a documentary where problematic stuff might be filmed? The fans themselves might of boycotted youtube.

They would of been like:

"How dare they put the boys in a bad light. S.m should have protected them"

The members are known for saying stuff that got them in trouble with foreign american fandoms. What if it caused more trouble than it was worth?

That's how companies have to think.

I understand that there are many things which do need to be talked about concerning exo, s.m and kpop but the reality is that be honest most do not want to have those conversations. How many injuries and people passing out had fans rolling their eyes saying "again?"

or "screw s.m"

what does that do?

People don't even know how to boycott because they are so addicted to their faves being top sellers and milking their achievements. How can people say they don't care when they talk about exo's awards like they earned them themselves. The only award a fan should be proud of is a grammy because there's a council of critics who are unbias not a bunch of crazy fans.

When people let go of their ego then change will happen until then the companies will continue to do whatever they want. Having underage children dancing in a basement learning how to attract fans is an issue. Millionaires getting less money than they thought they could get is not.

Capitalism kills

people are way to general with the exposing celebs argument for me, like you either wanna talk about EVERYTHING or nothing. There's no in between. And people usually stop at the simple judging a celeb because it's popular. Celebs are only the reflection of the current celebrity. A school of fish won't give birth to a giraffe. If someone with money fame and success acts like a demon that's because the society upheld that standard. People's subconscious mind intakes everything. In a society where alcohol and drugs are okay, fighting and harming others is funny why would it surprise you that people with fame and money participate in that as well? It shouldn't. In reality people support villains the most. Mind you clark kent gets treated like crap for being a nice person, but people uplift superman only when he is destroying and fighting. People are awful in general therefore what celebs do don't surprise me. but it's acting like you cannot discuss if someone has narcissistic or sociopathic tendencies. But when it comes out they hurt others everyone is shocked. No people are fake and hive minded. Only ready to crap on someone when it's socially acceptable. If people thought logically and it was normal to observe people's behavior and protect your heart and emotions nobody would be hurt by celebs or family or friends getting exposed. But human society rewards ignorance. Like no. That's not cute at all. That being said even if I like of kekeke about someone that doesn't mean I'm ignorant to darker or shadow sides of their personality. I wish it was normal not being a fairy about another human beings like humans aren't naturally lying and violent creatures. It's actually sad how it mentally hurts people to think of someone they like in a realistic way. This is how people have psychotic breaks whenever their faves gets outed. Honestly this is making me reflect on my youth when I thought it was cute to ignore the human imperfect sides of someone. Never do that. Don't bully or make fun of people ever but be realistic. That can save someone's life seriously. I've seen people get scolded into turning their lives around. But sadly many think that is hating, but it isn't. As a large group, telling someone they need to go get help and take care of themselves isn't overstepping. That shit can save someone's life, literally. Even if you don't know them formally. People need to stop being hesitant to tell the real about people to protect their reputation. It only helps the one drowning feel like nobody can see their pain. Instead of spamming people's dm's with praise or inappropriate photos to puff up their ego, try to encourage them to get help if you have to do anything. Honestly a lot of celebs are mentally unhealthy, not all but a lot. Some people don't need access to large amounts of cash like that, but it's like the most insecure people in the world are getting quick cash and it's killing them. There is no buying happiness. A lot of them need to just stop being famous because they cannot handle it. Some people can because they are stable and confident but a majority literally cannot. Its okay to make it clear that you will not support someone until they take a much needed break and go get mental, spiritual and physical help.

No lie I want shoes with the toe thingies

Shawn Mendes | Los Angeles, CA (February 27, 2025)

meal inspo

When i see this my microbiome screams. In reality this is super overpriced but it makes me see veggies positively and helps me stick to the journey

Semi-motivational quotes from Hayao Miyazaki

he has a hangup at literally every stage that's why I get so upset when people push that he came from this big happy family, like pls stop saying that when you don't know someone's childhood. You don't know what being a kid was like for anyone but especially a child entertainer. It's very rough for anyone. But particularly in Korea. Especially in kpop and especially at s.m. I don't ever wanna push to just feel bad for people all the time but how people overeroticize him when almost every habit he has is traced back to child neglect, it gets under my skin seriously.

jongin why

I'm patiently waiting for the day sean lew does his big one and finally choreographs for sm and saves the company from mediocrity cause southern hip hop does not go like how they've been doing it or teaching it.

Back in the day they used to have a good medium of american choreographers to assist the trainee's and idols and clean up their faults now it's like they don't' have that and it's soo evident.

I don't care the minute they got rid of that bald british or american dude they companies dancing went down hill. It became a weird oligarchy. Like I noticed kai's main teacher started recommending people he trained and they eventually ended up replacing most of the western choreographers. They brought in bailey sok

for peaches, the asian american southern swag hip hop extraordinaire that she is and it was way better than Mmmh.

It actually had so many different elements in it, but most don't really focus on the dancing. But for rover they settled on bada lee

who is mainly a krump battle dancer, it lacked authenticity. Not to get all so you think you can dance, but Jongin cannot do that and at sm they make no effort to really teach everyone learns on their own and they aren't really pushed to be at a certain standard.

Kasper and all those other choreographers and that studio they get most of the dancers from have a very specific skill sets.

They've been with sm for quite some time and I get that, loyalty but like the art world don't work like that they're gonna get left behind.

they got clout about 2013 from america's best dance crew made it to the quarter finals cool. We back to Korea with prestige

Did the olympics alongside exo.

I get sm always wants people with lots of prestige and clout but they tend to keep the same people for so long the creative image of sm gets stifled and left behind, now sm is desperately trying all the trends and fads to get their artists relevant to the youth again. Like it's a little late they should have been letting young creative directors in.

I don't care I'm always gonna advocate for new and upcoming artist with lots of passion. They make the world turn, they start the trends, they bring the most energy with their ideas.

Ignoring the performative style an artist specializes in and getting choreographers that make lite hood tik tok mashup dances is ruining the game. But if one must do it I think letting the western choreographers they bring in for ideas have some real creative freedom. It typically never fails I feel like they bring in these choreographers for a blueprint then let a korean choreographer twist it up a little bit so they never have to really give somebody credit. They never say western names hardly if ever only thank you team who contributed to the success but the korean choreographers get to show their face, do interviews, and idols basically have them as a part of the crew.

Like they are NOT slick. At all. I know the western choreographers get inspo from southern hip hop but at least they are transparent. They'll say this is inspired by this dance, two step, crank that, etc but it never is even a topic of discussion. Only full credit going to the k choreographers and yeah yeah some other people helped...like people forget why exo's choreo was so on point when they started

I really don't wanna make it seem like it's just black creators they try to shelve and ignore it's basically anyone non korean.

Tony Testa I remember him from back in the day but when I wanted to search him up to my surprise nobody really talked about him and the only choreographer people talk about training Kai is mainly Mihawk and Kasper...which is somewhat true.

Cause they're choreo is...like it's okay.. but Kai himself went into how Mihawk trained Exo and it was basically sm style, yelling, you're terrible, quit now, emotional abuse... wow you're famous I love you let's take pictures.. I don't care they gaslight them kids idc idc idc. Now that's trauma bonding.

But then there's the actual full truth that they and many other sm performers who have been praised for their dances around that time, were in fact trained by a real deal professional at one point, one of their staple choreographers was Tony Testa and he choreographed for Britney Spears(circus) and Michael Jackson(Testa was hired by director Kenny Ortega as an associate choreographer for Michael Jackson's final tour This Is It which obviously never got to happen but still)

This was dance on sunset? I think?

and suddenly the quality makes all the sense in the world

But again try and find it without knowing about it before hand you'd be like yeah no they never really had any western choreographers. There's no history books in Kpop if you were there you remember but if you weren't woops doesn't exist.

except it does.

Anyway too many people have this weird odd narrative Mihawk did it all and thank God for him like....how? He's just one of the only one's still there. Everybody else left cause Korea is trash to artists and creatives.

Like Kai cannot do that hood stuff, he wasn't trained for that at all. Now if sm invested more in there artists fine blame him but everybody knows these kids would dance in that basement for hours by themselves cause be honest they probably paid the teachers for a certain amount of time and then it's all on the kids. They absorb as much as they can but then it's up to them. He couldn't just learn such an advanced style like krumping from watching, you either grow up in the culture or you learn from someone who grew up in the culture. This is why you can't expect these Korean teachers to teach krumping. They know it but only cause they most likely learned from someone close to the source, it's not just something that can spread so easily.

sm has always like historically done this like it's just something they do they will never stop taking these itsy bitsy pieces of black culture and recycling it they can't help it. They've worked with tons of black artist to make the actual music and tend to get some western or black influenced people to try and create some type of instant quick success. But it's so subtle one could say it's not related at all.

I would say its a coincidence but knowing who trained shotaro like uhm no it's not,

Tiktok

he is a professional dancer and he dances!! #nct #shotaro #nctzen #czennie #dance #nctu #foryou #fypシ #fyp #foryoupage #viral #xyzbca

Sm knows exactly what company trained Shotaro and they are known to specialize in krumping and hip hop. The little time he spent at sm most likely taught him barely anything he was already trained when they got him. They fib so much and never let their artists go into detail. He trained for years with a company that trains people in the top boy groups in japan.

EXPG is a studio connected with the iconic Japanese boy group exile tribe where most of their members train.

I just get tired of people saying 'studio from japan or studio in america' like if it was Korean people would give the entire name...like what's wrong with giving people credit who deserve it.

They typically sometimes get sent to new york for 2 years I think? But that was in the old days it may be different now. This is because the japanese always understood if you want your artist to do black music they should not just sing black music but be under the cultural american influence in some sort of way.

I don't know what they aren't getting, Kai isn't perfect at every style. They just don't plan on ever investing any more money into him or really any of their artists.

He was more in his comfort zone at the beginning of exo with a heavy emphasis on jazz and contemporary style dance.

If there isn't jazz or contemporary at least in the basis of the dance that's where Kai starts to falter. Broadway theater style is what he's most comfortable in. But because of appearance they push urban dance on him.

They didn't even try with bomba

Rover was a soul crushing mix between crank that soulja boi and the macarena.

I was watching the video like nooo that's every viral black/ethnic dance in one and I already knew that tagged choreographer was korean. I wanna analyze rover later but I might get upset it's pretty like a big major 106 in park style mv/music video and dance but like that fact just got

Everything he specializes in sm is like nah they also make anyone with sm have this weird loyalty to where the artist never get to express and cultivate themselves as a human. They are stuck in some sort of child/star hybrid.

I don't know why in the world they didn't send exo or at least super m to millenium they literally rented out the studio where so many talented dancers choreograph and just flew out they korean choreographer so ignorant. They were so stubborn with that group.

I feel like if they were trained by young vibrant artist close to their age they could of gotten so much inspiration. Freedom is really a virus and why would a kpop company want them to have freedom

Like hire the boy he just traveling around asia in his spare time making some of the best choreography of his career and they're like lalalala let's hire other people he's worked and trained with but not him. If anyone could actually help fill in the gaps with some of sm's main dancers I think he could.

Anyway I just feel definitely by 2025 either super m is gonna be somewhat active or sm will be out of business but I still think sean and kai should at least meet up once at a dance conference they become friends and post jazzy contemporary dances online with the occasional obligatory bff's cooking in the kitchen youtube channel, like so many of the peebles do now and days. They both do the same artsy triple threat yet auditioning to be a stay at home husband type of thing, cooking, yoga, self care. Like it can be good for the brand I swear. I just have a thing for artsy people with the same vibes clicking up. It's not so far fetched cause he already worked with Jackson. I just want the two balls of sunshine to meet

Behind SM's trainee Life.

I recently read a popular post on Nate Pann, about a post-SM trainee, and she explains to us the things behind the doors of SM. And it was really interesting and some what scary, so I’ve decided to translate a few of the main things.

“Hi, I was a SM trainee until last week, and was in the pre-debut class. In the pre-debut teams, I was put in the 6 member-ed one. Amongst us was a pretty girl, who lacked talent but seemed to have past auditions through her physical appearances. One day, we were training, until late at night, when we were asked to go to the SM rumor management office (there’s a separate office in SM that deals with rumors that are viral on webs), and we heard that a visit there are extremely harsh, thus we were all very scared. When we got there, one of the office lady just slapped the pretty/youngest member across the face. She was holding a piece of paper, and asked the pretty girl if these rumors were true. The girl admitted to the rumors and she was hit again. She was then told to not return to SM again……apparently the rumors were about her previous reckless acts that were posted online.

It goes the same for EXO baekhyun, there were previous posts that were going viral in south Korea because he had filmed a footage in his early days and involving a packet of smoke. He was hit a lot, and all he did was just apologize, and they couldn’t kick him out because he had already debuted. Then there’s one about sehun and wa$$up, he was told off not to share any sign of interest to other girl group idols. Lastly, chanyeol was in trouble for this scandal with f(x) member Sulli, it’s widely known that SM workers don’t often tell Sulli off, cause she has an extreme temper.

Anyways, my point is, what you put up online can greatly impact these trainees/idols. Thus if you aren’t sure of anything, please don’t post them. They’ll just create rumors and there are people who get it a lot of trouble for that.”

[Pann Post screenshot:]

Translated by: @Exodirty

The topics delved into by japanese authors are so poetic and specific. Like it's hard to imagine bullying being discussed in such a wide manner in western literature. Yes it has been discussed but because we are such an individualistic society it's easy for us to forget different ways of life and tribalism. Solitude in some countries is a death sentence. Humanity is really a herd and it's something that comes up time and time again within society but we don't really think on it how we should. Much of our behavioral patterns and social norms stem back to survival. When I think of it like that then I understand why bullying exists on a structural level with humans. It even exists in the animal kingdom. Get right or get left basically.

Mieko Kawakami, Heaven (translated by Sam Bett and David Boyd)